. >> but obama's overreach is one thing and whether the republicans can use the debt ceiling when it come up in february or march, when it comes up. that is another thing they are divided on. that is another area republicans take a big beating. >> bret: republican wants it done before the fiscal cliff. >> i think they want to separate it out. >> let me add in here, judge, to your point that no congress has ever used the fiscal cliff. usual through debt ceiling as a bargaining point, which is what happened last year. this never dealt with. >> what would happen if the congress said no? the president would be forced to operate the federal government in money available to him. >> nobody said that to ronald reagan or the first george busher second george bush. >> democrats voted against raising the debt ceiling. >> but nobody has ever, ever stopped it and made it a point of then fiscal negotiation. only happened once. >> we have never been in treacherous, perilous fiscal circumstances as today. >> bret: top senate republican calling it quits was here on the set with us. the all-stars weig